Do sailboats have air conditioning


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I am currently enjoying my vacation in a star hotel in Mauritius and it is becoming increasingly clear to me that nothing works here without air conditioning. Or do you get used to the temperature and humidity after weeks?
In the port, a split device would do the same as for the one. Summer at home.

I once endured the Canary Islands without it in the summer. So I'm still struggling with the decision. Here in the monsoons the wind generators would generate a lot of electricity and so would the sun when the clouds are gone. Should be enough problem-free. But good battery management is still popular.

What kind of systems are there that cool against seawater? Efficiency would be significantly better than with air systems.

..... that nothing works here without air conditioning. .....

That old song Nelson
any inadequacy (here the climate in connection with physical resilience) can be corrected with technical effort. Air conditioning may be the solution for package holidaymakers. For the sailor who has merged with nature: D it is of course unsustainable.

If the kitchen is too hot for you, you shouldn't become a chef.

Greetings Franz

is my belief.

I installed a Dometic air conditioning system with 12,000 BUT in my 37 C. The designation is STQ12K. I could heat with that too.

Life is really much more comfortable with air conditioning, especially when it comes to getting a good night's sleep. At 38 ° C, which only drops to 25 ° C around 4:00 am, my wife and I can't sleep. But if the boat is down to a comfortable 25 °, you can switch off the air conditioning before going to sleep and sleep through the rest of the night.

I am convinced that nothing works without a generator or a correspondingly strong shore connection. According to the manufacturer, the air conditioning in the 230 V ~ version needs 28 A at start-up. 4 A is due in operation. Now even a rather small boat like mine has not cooled down to 10 minutes. It takes time. If someone wants to lug batteries with them that ensure that the air conditioning system can operate for several hours, a battery bank like a submarine is needed. In addition, a large, empty battery bank has to be recharged for a correspondingly long time. With solar cells that can be housed on a boat and with a wind turbine, recharging will take more time than is left between the operating times of the air conditioning.

I solved the problem by installing a Fischer Panda 5000i. With an inverter, exhaust system, etc. it will weigh <100 kg. It rotates depending on the load because only an inverter feeds the 230 V 50 Hz ~ into the on-board network. If only the air conditioning is in operation, it turns around 2300 rpm and is also subtle in terms of noise. We also have electricity for all other purposes. So I threw out the gas system. We cook with induction and microwave.

The matter is also not so dramatic in terms of costs. A good wind generator that delivers 400 W just below the storm limit and 80 to 100 W in normal wind conditions, costs me all the trimmings and its € 2,500. Good solar cells also have their price. Even if the available electrical power is disregarded in a cost comparison, the generator does not do so badly. There is not much going on with the noises either. Thanks to an exhaust gas separation unit and good sound insulation, when you sit in the cockpit, my generator is not louder than the whistling wind turbine from the neighbor. The sound is even more pleasant than that of the howler next door.

The bottom line is that everything speaks for a generator. The only thing that speaks against it is the prejudice that some sailors have against such a part. You just have to stand above it.

Good luck
saga

Addendum: I am currently reading Franz's post, who was faster than me. Regarding my last sentence: "WHAT HAS TO BE PROVED!"

That old song Nelson
any inadequacy (here the climate in connection with physical resilience) can be corrected with technical effort. Air conditioning may be the solution for package holidaymakers. For the sailor who has merged with nature: D it is of course unsustainable.

If the kitchen is too hot for you, you shouldn't become a chef.

Greetings Franz

Franz you tell macho fairy tales;)
I know both versions in the Caribbean - with and without air conditioning.
If you only want a minimum of quality of life, you can't avoid air conditioning.
1.) The opposite of air conditioning is called drafts and in our age not all bones like this anymore.
2,) Effective protection against mosquitoes and malaria transmission in some areas is only provided by air conditioning at night.
3.) Increased personal protection against theft that happens at night with open windows and doors is only offered by air conditioning and locked doors.
4.) Without air conditioning I have to anchor where the wind blows openly - but there it wobbles more - even in a cat.
5.) Personal fitness of the captain. Anyone who sleeps through the night with air conditioning is well rested in the morning and can navigate their ship more safely; if you wallow in the heat in your own juice all night and sweat even more with a towel because of the mosquitoes, you simply do not rest in the morning, are in a bad mood and become tired again quickly.
6.) With good energy management, you can run the watermaker together with the air conditioning system at night, so you don't have to start up during the day.
These are MY quick experiences of how I feel about air conditioning on ships in hot regions.
Machos, however, certainly also reject heating on yachts in the north: rolleyes:
Regards - Norbert

Addendum:
I am currently reading the post from Saga, which I can only agree with.

You should think carefully about that.
Because of the high temperatures and the high humidity, you can hardly sleep at night.
Mold can also form in the ship.
Then the power supply, actually not a problem in the port, but you should take the input voltages into account.
230V / 220V and 115V / 110V.
Many make do with simple standalone devices, but then the question is where to go.
A built-in system is better if space permits.
The last aspect is the supply at anchor, if a generator is necessary, then you also need a large diesel tank.
I hope this helps.

All right people
and if you can make the workplace better, you should definitely do that. Anyone who drives to the customer in the car needs an air conditioning system, the control room which requires full concentration from the operator for a whole shift, etc.
But why should I voluntarily go into such a murderous climate that I can only endure with technical help and (wasting) a lot of energy?
I agree with the senior British administrators of yesteryear: Never go to the Caribbean voluntarily!
And if I can't stand the Mediterranean, I sail on Lake Constance or virtual regattas: D

Greetings Franz

Buy recommendation?
This is my:
http://www.dometic.com/enus/Americas/USA/Marine/Marine-Air/DX-Self-Contained/products/?productdataid=84881
Open the spec sheet for detailed data.
The only device I know that has a noise enclosure.
@ Manfred, what do you want to do?
1.) A refrigeration system in the sala and then leave all the doors open?
2.) a larger one in the salon that cools all rooms?
What has your manufacturer planned on this matter?
Point 1. works well for my friend on his 41-foot Kat but you have to leave all doors open below.
Point 2 is a large installation with air hoses in all four bedrooms, if the manufacturer has not provided any empty spaces for this, it becomes problematic.
Regards Norbert

The SAGA solution is interesting, especially the safety gain through the evacuated gas system.
The gene, a question of personal "sensitivity", would be annoying.
But not more annoying than a wind turbine, -)
And it's "only" about the times at anchor ... depending on the area (for me east MM) you get electricity very often, then nothing is humming.
I got myself a 2 KW mobile air conditioning system, which was also very cheap (available from 200 € as an exhibitor).
I also found a place, the long exhaust air hose is a bit annoying, the cross-section of which (allegedly) cannot be reduced due to heat build-up.
During the day, however, the operation is pretty pointless, the sun heats up too quickly for the air conditioning to "come up".
The cooling down mentioned by Saga in the evening for sleeping is very pleasant and the aspects mentioned by Noppe such as drafts and mosquitoes are also applicable (drafts from the AC are also "deadly")
An acquaintance has a built-in one on his motor yacht, and as a neighbor berthed me his constant blubber of gene / engine and exhaust. In addition, it was probably very expensive.

On the Lagoon 450 there is an air conditioning system installed centrally in the salon with an encapsulated built-in gene, which is very pleasant and not annoying.

if you mean me: my name is Alfred.

I have exactly the system that your link points to, including the additional noise protection capsule.

My wife and I are always only two people. The guest chamber therefore does not have its own air outlet. Otherwise I have an air outlet for the salon and a second for the owner's room. In this way, the air volumes are well circulated in both rooms. The air is currently only returned via the salon. The air conditioning is installed under the self-service bench in the salon. We leave the door between the owner's chamber and salon open, so we have no problem with the air return. I did not have a separate return for the bedroom because that would have cost more storage space.

We also have the air hoses from Dometic. They are very well insulated so that no condensation forms on them. A jetty neighbor installed simple cardboard tubes without insulation for his air conditioning system and thus turned his boat into a stalactite cave. It gets damp everywhere under the hoses. However, Dometic hoses have one disadvantage, they are really disgusting to work with.

I didn't keep the hoses artificially short, because if they are long enough they dampen the fan noise well. They cost storage space, of course, but you just have to die one death.

Best wishes
Alfred

So first of all I have 2 wind generators and 4 solar modules with a total of 600 W. Instead of bimini, I had the modules installed. Battery capacity almost 600 Ah. So cooling one night is no problem. Generator would be my last choice because it uses up fuel. But if necessary, I could charge a portable Honda during the day.

For reasons of noise, I would prefer the open door method. It pulls out of hoses and maybe also makes a noise. Well, you can't hear the heating either. But cold pipes are not provided. And I usually just need a cold sleeper.

In my motorboat, a 320 Fjord, I tried that too:

I got myself a 2 KW mobile air conditioning system, which was also very cheap (available from 200 € as an exhibitor).

The air hose would still have worked. But with a monoblock device, the dog is buried somewhere else! The system draws in ambient air in order to transfer the heat to it, which it is supposed to extract from the room to be cooled. All the warm air that is blown out of the boat through the exhaust hose is drawn back into the boat. The constant supply of warm outside air reduces the effectiveness of the system immensely.

After experience, I immediately resorted to a built-in system for my sailboat, because it really helps!

Best wishes
saga

So first of all I have 2 wind generators and 4 solar modules with a total of 600 W. Instead of bimini I had the modules installed. Battery capacity almost 600 Ah. So cooling one night is no problem. Generator would be my last choice because it uses up fuel. But if necessary, I could charge a portable Honda during the day.

For reasons of noise, I would prefer the open door method. It pulls out of hoses and maybe also makes a noise. Well, you can't hear the heating either. But cold pipes are not provided. And I usually just need a cold sleeper.

Manfred you can forget an air conditioner without a gene in my eyes.
Saga, who is also called Alfred, will surely confirm this to you as a technician.
Regards - Norbert

In my motorboat, a 320 Fjord, I tried that too:


The air hose would still have worked. But with a monoblock device, the dog is buried somewhere else! The system draws in ambient air in order to transfer the heat to it, which it is supposed to extract from the room to be cooled. All the warm air that is blown out of the boat through the exhaust hose is drawn back into the boat. The constant supply of warm outside air reduces the effectiveness of the system immensely.

After experience, I immediately resorted to a built-in system for my sailboat, because it really helps!

Best wishes
saga

the more effective method is certainly the water-cooled one, as you correctly describe.
You just have to assess whether you can / like to provide a few thousand and more space for the quite large installation system or whether it is actually only about a few peak days.
We have the system on relatively seldom, just in the evening, to cool down, but that is enough and in the evening the ambient air is no longer so hot, especially since in the eastern MM (Kos un-northern) and the Cyclades there is always a cooling wind in the evenings.
In Caribbean or tropical waters, I see it like you do.

Aloha,

In the Caribbean we only ever needed a climate in marinas. At anchor we had the hatch over the bed on or a fan on.
In the Rodney Bay Marina I found it extremely stuffy and sometimes a little mosquito-prone.
A climate for the owners would certainly be OK :-)

VG

Micha

Saga, Noppe, it also heats - unfortunately - 4A at 230V. Nevertheless, if I had read this earlier, my heating would have been omitted and the system with generator would have been installed instead. But I think about it if I really want to move back to the south, to retrofit it. You shouldn't suck the electricity from the batteries, then they'll be over soon.

Anyone who goes on long-distance journeys should consider such a device:
smallest dimensions and designed for 50 and 60 Hertz:
http://www.aquaair.net/SSIG_Self_Contained_Units__80706-11.pdf

If you want to install your own air conditioning system, you will quickly find that most air conditioning sellers only have cheap plastic or aluminum rosettes on offer, here is a positive selection.
I was in this factory in USA when I bought my air conditioner for my sailor and was overwhelmed by the selection of manifolds and rosettes.
http://www.aquaair.net/Aqua-Air_Grilles___Air_Distribution_Accessories__2011-LIST_PRICE.pdf
Regards - Norbert

32483

She needs space as already. The insulated hoses almost take up the most space. The system doesn't need more space than a stowed monoblock - but neither does the air conditioner!

The air hoses for the salon and the sleeping cabin look like this:
32497 32493

One less anorak fits into the wardrobe, which is bearable.

The air outlets look like this:

32495

The one in the bedroom is the same. The rooms therefore do not suffer. Only the storage space became a little less. Because the bench at SB is difficult to reach because of the table, we only had stuff that we could just as easily leave at home.

Of course, the generator also needs its place. For him, the unoccupied guest cabin has been made 60 cm narrower:

32499

The two lids are of course also provided with a soundproofing mat on the back. If I have to go to the generator, they'll be gone in a moment.

So it works if you want to. There is room in the smallest hut ..... this also applies to boats!

Incidentally, diesel consumption is negligible. You can hardly measure it exactly, but the consumption figures from Fischer-Panda seem credible to me.

Good luck
Alfred

If you want to install your own air conditioning system, you will quickly find that most air conditioning sellers only have cheap plastic or aluminum rosettes on offer, here is a positive selection.
I was in this factory in USA when I bought my air conditioner for my sailor and was overwhelmed by the selection of manifolds and rosettes.
http://www.aquaair.net/Aqua-Air_Grilles___Air_Distribution_Accessories__2011-LIST_PRICE.pdf
Regards - Norbert

As you can see on the pictures, Dometic Germany also has these parts in its range. Y - distributors, air outlet boxes, louvred grilles for air inlet and outlet, everything to be had. You just can't be satisfied with the junk mail order companies have in their product range. I would never have done those horrible plastic things to myself either!

I asked for advice at the Dometic booth at the 2012 boat show in Düsseldorf. The people from Dometic / WAECO were really competent and helpful. Together with the people from Fischer-Panda, all electrotechnical questions were also discussed, e.g. whether the inverter can handle the starting current. Everything is going fine, I can report the result!

Best wishes
Alfred

Hello Alfred, nice, careful installation work, compliments .... But I did not expect botch from you either.
It really doesn't work without an insulating mat, but I bought the hoses with this insulation, you can also see it in your pictures.
I will install an additional air conditioning system in the salon as set. For a long time I thought about how I could drive such a system with the Lima of a main engine, of course with an inverter and a large battery bank. But everything is too complicated, so I take a somewhat larger one with 16000BTU. If necessary, I will drive these with a small gene on the way.
Alfred do you have a "softstart" (or whatever it is called) installed on your system or do you start a full lot?
Regards - Norbert

I also considered installing the soft start. The 28 A starting current is awesome and the recommended 18 A fuse protection too. But as already reported, together with Fischer-Panda (Mr. Langer) and Dometic (Mr. Lenz) we coordinated the system in Düsseldorf. The Fischer and Dometic booths were less than 100m apart, so a mini-conference was not a problem. Mr. Lenz immediately said that the 5000i can handle the climate even without a soft start. After checking the data, Mr. Langer was of the opinion that his generator or the associated inverter would create the starting current.

That's how it is. If the air conditioning is switched on while the generator is running, the speed of the generator increases briefly from 2200 rpm to 2500 rpm. After a few seconds it then drops again, to around 2300 rpm. Obviously, the capacity of the capacitor in the inverter is sufficient to supply the starting current for the few milliseconds that the compressor needs to start. It will help that the control starts the engine of the cooling water pump a few seconds beforehand.

Volle Lotte is no problem even with my "toy generator". Your power packs will have no problem there!

Best wishes
Alfred

For such applications there is the Multiplus series from Victron, which has a transfer switch that conducts up to 50 A and briefly removes the required difference from the batteries.

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