Is psychiatry a pseudoscience?

Pseudoscience Psychiatry

Pseudoscience Psychiatry

01.09.2012 at 02:50
Within a year, six to eight million German citizens are in need of psychiatric treatment, including around 500,000 chronically ill people.
Around 400,000 people are admitted to psychiatric wards in Germany every year.
But can psychiatry help these people?
In my opinion, the treatment lacks almost any scientific basis and only opens the door to medical arbitrariness. People are often stigmatized with baseless diagnoses and drugs are prescribed. Medicines intended to treat a chemical imbalance that is seen as the cause of the mental disorder. This chemical imbalance is not determined by laboratory tests or the like, but simply suspected on the basis of symptoms and then psychotropic drugs are cheerfully prescribed. A billion dollar business for the pharmaceutical industry, but no real help for those affected and often even harmful to their health. Yes, people have problems and worries that can lead to psychological difficulties, sometimes serious. But I think it is dangerous to portray such problems as an incurable "brain disease" that can only be alleviated by taking dangerous pills. An almost criminal system with millions of people affected, in Germany alone, that is treated far too little in public.

How do you feel about the topic?

Has anyone here experience with psychiatry?


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Pseudoscience Psychiatry

09/01/2012 at 3:01 am
I am very sick myself .. I know 2 people who are in the slap, one instructed himself and one was brought there by the police or they arranged it ...
both were helped and they are now living their "normal" life again ...
I think it is not as "exaggerated" as you describe it here ...

my thread fits quite well because it includes, among other things, a better way of diagnosing mental illnesses, drugs and remedies. ...


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Pseudoscience Psychiatry

09/01/2012 at 4:14 am
I also know some of those affected and the psychiatric stay did not improve the life of any of them in the long term. A stay in psychiatry may also help some people, but that does not change the fundamental inadequacies of this so-called science. The example of the postman Gert Postel is also interesting. With his training as a postman, he worked for two years as a psychiatric senior physician in Zschadraß in Saxony without anyone noticing. Just imagine it at a surgeon. Quote from Gert Postel: "Anyone who has mastered the psychiatric language can formulate any nonsense without limits and put it in the guise of the academic." And who ever gets a little familiar with the man's story (e.g. here http://www.focus.de/wissen/mensch/psychologie/tid-15095/falsche-aerzte-gert-postel-das-kann-auch-eine- trained-ziege_aid_423648.html) and psychiatry in general, who will probably only be able to agree.

An experiment from the 1970s suggests similar conclusions:

In 1973 D.L. Rosenhan asked whether it was possible for the staff in psychiatric clinics to differentiate between the mentally ill and the healthy. To do this, he carried out an extremely interesting experiment: he smuggled eight normal people into 12 different clinics as sham patients. After their briefing, these people behaved "normally".

None of the eight patients was discovered as a sham patient and they had to spend an average of 19 days (minimum 7 days, maximum 52 days) in the ward before they were discharged.


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Pseudoscience Psychiatry

09/01/2012 at 4:43 am
Banana_Joe wrote: The psychiatric stay did not improve anyone's life in the long term
I guess that's because you can't change the "brain structure", the life of those affected must also change for the better in order to be able to live "normally" in the long term ...
it doesn't help if someone comes out of the trap and goes back to exactly the same life ...

I can't say much about the rest, I haven't dealt with that yet ...
Banana_Joe wrote:None of the eight patients was discovered as a sham patient
but all were released again?


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Pseudoscience Psychiatry

09/01/2012 at 6:08 am
@Banana_Joe

I worked in psychiatry and I really can't support what you're writing here.

Psychology is not a pseudoscience, and there are medical professionals in psychiatry.
The drugs have all been tested and a lot has happened in this field, there are better drugs today than ever before, so that one can be used for almost every eventuality, e.g. a drug does not work, is prepared (whereas in the past only a few drugs were available, some of which were not effective, depending on the person, and you couldn't find the right dose of the right drug)

Since mental illness is always chronic in itself, it is not surprising that many people keep coming back to psychiatry.

This is not due to the incompetence of the doctors, it is due to the nature of the diseases.

Nobody would put an orthopedic surgeon at the load if you have to come back to him again and again to straighten something or straighten something, if you just tend to.



It is not shown in this way, unfortunately it IS the case that mental illnesses, if they have broken out and are acute, can only be combated with medication.
You don't drug people indiscriminately, you do something good for them.

The drugs are dosed as low as possible in order to keep the side effects as low as possible, but sometimes this is unfortunately not possible and a high dose has to be given, for example if the patient is acutely psychotic and self-endangering -

Under duress, medication is generally only given in extreme cases, every patient has the right to refuse to take medication and generally to refuse everything else (blood draw, visit to the doctor, etc.), even if he is there by pkg (i.e. under duress), and he has the option at any time contacting an attorney about his or her briefing if it is not legal to dispute


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Pseudoscience Psychiatry

09/01/2012 at 6:09 am
@Banana_Joe

You can't compare the psychiatry of the 70s in America with today's in Germany.

If you admit healthy people today, they will be outside again after 2-3 days.


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Pseudoscience Psychiatry

09/01/2012 at 6:11 am
i have this problem with my mother ..... she was diagnosed with schizophrenia decades ago and she went to psychiatry several times because she wanted to kill herself a few times. she was stuffed full of medication that worsened her state of mind.

my mother is depressed because of her experiences in childhood, which were really not without, I can only say that she was under strong emotional and psychological pressure until she was 18, her father raped her and her mother wanted to murder her several times .. .. but that is by no means all that happened, she was really exposed to psychological terror all the time ....

and so i can say that she 100% does NOT suffer from any brain disease. Her past would have to be dealt with and instead of doing what one would actually expect from psychologists, she was crammed full of drugs by several pseudo psychologists that drove her into delusions that temporarily put her memory out of action and today no longer differentiate between reality and fantasy can.

Only recently did I find out that she was given the drug sifrol, which is actually used against Parkinson's disease, which she definitely does not have! she was prescribed the medication because she had pain in her legs due to her veins (varicose veins) which was wrongly equated with pakinson's disease. the drug has the following side effects - an excerpt:

Loss of memory, fainting, hallucinations, restlessness, confusion, unusual dreams, delusions,

and that's exactly what happened to her !!!

how can you make a person who is already depressed such a wrong person! prescribe medication that is irresponsible !!!

I really doubt the ability of so-called psychiatrists and I do not exclude the normal doctors because they just want to calm the patient down instead of really working through the experiences of their past. Fortunately, my mother no longer takes these drugs, but thanks to this and other incorrect treatments, she is a mental and physical wreck and on early retirement.

the real psychological problem was never dealt with although she had changed therapists at least 10 times.

you feel really powerless and at the mercy because I can't really help her either, besides listening to her and giving advice, I can't do anything for her.

it is a hopeless situation .....


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Pseudoscience Psychiatry

09/01/2012 at 6:18 am
@ -Therion-

moment moment.
that she had a bad past that had been dealt with does not mean that she is not mentally ill.
Such diseases can arise from trauma.

Just as stress can lead to chronic digestive problems or stomach stones.


If so, then you have to tell the appropriate doctors.
However, these are not the ward doctors, but other general practitioners responsible for psychiatry who have initiated this, but of course you can use this information in contact with the actually ward doctors to use another medication or to leave it out.

Therapists and psychiatry are two different pairs of shoes.

A therapist will talk to you etc. and work things up with you, but psychiatry is intended for people who are acutely at risk and who, due to their illness, are not at all capable of such therapy sessions because they are still too affected by the symptoms suffering from the disease.


if your mother is e.g. if she tries to take her life, she is self-endangering and goes to psychiatry until she is classified as no longer acutely suicidal, that is, she is held to be stable.

You don't have to stay there just because of schizophrenia, but you can do it voluntarily.

Psychiatry is fundamentally not responsible for discussions and coming to terms with the past; it is a hospital for the mentally ill

It is regrettable that your mother didn’t get along well with previous therapists, but it has nothing to do with psychiatry.


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Pseudoscience Psychiatry

09/01/2012 at 6:25 am
@Banana_Joe
did you just see "one flew over the cuckoo's nest"? And do you draw conclusions from this?


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Pseudoscience Psychiatry

09/01/2012 at 7:10 am
shionoro wrote:that she had a bad past that had been dealt with does not mean that she is not mentally ill.
Such diseases can arise from trauma.
you mean to say that she got a brain disease as a result of her experiences and is therefore schizophrenic?

sorry but i can't believe that ... it is obvious where the problem lies, a person who has lived through hell since birth has to become downright depressed because he cannot process the experience at all. this does not require a brain disease or develop it is simply impossible to process such a past, at least not without outside help.

without the experiences my mother would not have been depressed and without the medication she would not have become schizophrenic. that a person would like to take his or her life under such circumstances, I don't need a brain disease either, it is a reaction to the experiences that cannot be processed and, in my opinion, has nothing to do with a disease.
shionoro wrote:Psychiatry, however, is intended for people who are acutely at risk and who, due to their illness, are not even capable of such therapy sessions because they still suffer too much from the symptoms of the illness.
that is, if you want to commit suicide, is that a symptom of the disease?

so i don't see it that way .... it is solely a cause / effect principle and at least for me understandable .... if that had happened to me what my mother had to go through for 18 years, i would have reacted in the same way with regard to her suicide attempts and I say that as a healthy person although I am neither depressed nor schizophrenic!

.... it is easy for the human mind not to process and a logical conclusion from a constant rejection, of not being recognized, of corporal punishment and not receiving love from wanting to take one's life ...... I now also have a brain disease?

when people get depressed it has to do with their psyche, their attitude towards life or their living conditions, strokes of fate or other external influences that they cannot deal with. In any case, i don't see depression as a brain or metabolic disease because otherwise there would not be people who could find their way back to normal just by changing their attitude or working on their personality without medication or therapeutic treatment, I know enough examples where that happened.
shionoro wrote:Psychiatry is fundamentally not responsible for discussions and coming to terms with the past; it is a hospital for the mentally ill
shionoro wrote:it is a hospital for the mentally ill
yes, and that's exactly why I expect help from this department if the psyche of a person is so impaired due to his experiences that he wants to take his own life .... and not only through medication but really through psychiatric help i can't really see the point of such an institution. .... to calm the patient down. Fighting the symptoms is not really useful and does not fight the cause!


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Pseudoscience Psychiatry

09/01/2012 at 7:39 am
@shionoro
You are right about what you write, but it is very difficult to find the right one for you with such diseases.
About 11 years ago my family doctor found me to have Burn Out Syndrome and on his advice I went to a psychosomatic clinic.
The word psycho alone caused a horror in me and I went there very skeptically.
There they asked me to talk about my life, feelings, etc., which was very difficult for me at the beginning. To make it short ... it did not stay with this one stay and I can only recommend everyone not to ignore it.
But it's hard to find the right facility for his symptoms; I've seen patients just being sedated ... a very young girl took her own life (this clinic wasn't what she needed).
There are clinics that take everyone in first, no matter where the problem is, but as already said, it is very difficult to decide on the basis of the patient's statement where the cause is at all.
Traumas have to be dealt with, as the following depressions can result in high levels of suicide.


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Pseudoscience Psychiatry

09/01/2012 at 8:24 am
Banana_Joe wrote:"And if you have a little bit of the history of the man (e.g. here http://www.focus.de/wissen/mensch/psychologie/tid-15095/falsche-aerzte-gert-postel-das-kann-auch-eine -dressierte-ziege_aid_423648.html) and psychiatry in general, who will probably only be able to agree.
I wouldn't even touch the focus, let alone read inside.
then rather pour your soul out to a postman.

i also know 3 - 4 people who were on the ward for several months
or 2 weeks.
from my point of view it didn't help much.
one of them continues to take hard drugs - actually everything, the main thing is anything
what seems to close - junkie, and that after more than 9 months of cure + treatment

another was over 4 months - still bad social relationship problems
alcohol, cigarettes, smoking weed every now and then, and medication, especially ritalin
on that, she says, she can objectively reflect ... it would do her good and help
because she then becomes clear in her head .... pffffffffffffff ... of course she gets this regularly on prescription.

the costs for such a treatment are in the 4-digit range.

but with one, I take off my hat, she's been talking to you for over 10 years
psychologists, and I have to say it definitely brought something.
very admirable strong personality, even if I have a very strong self-focus
always angry because I have my difficulties to keep up.


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Pseudoscience Psychiatry

09/01/2012 at 8:59 am
What kind of "psychiatry" are you talking about or assuming your criticism from @Banana_Joe?


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Pseudoscience Psychiatry

09/01/2012 at 9:26 am
The title is wrong. Psychiatry is only a branch of medicine and cannot make any scientific claim.

Apart from that, those affected can definitely expect help and support there.


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Pseudoscience Psychiatry

09/01/2012 at 9:31 am
I actually wanted to wait and see what kind of explanation would come, but I'll go into the topic in more detail!

1.Psychiatry is not the same as psychiatry, there is the so-called acute psychiatry for the first time, in these clinics you can find patients who are involved in crisis intervention (e.g. self-protection in the event of acute suicidality), or also for drug / alcohol withdrawal. Not only do these clinics "keep safe", they also have a large number of differential diagnostic methods at their disposal (e.g. MRT and EEG). In addition to acute psychiatry, there are so-called psychosomatic clinics in which no actual patients can be found and there are clinics that have focused on "long-term therapy" and have specialized in certain disorders (eating disorders, structural personality disorders, or adult or adolescent patients).

2. One cannot compare the psychiatry of 1973 with today's clinical psychiatry, there are meanwhile worlds between treatment methods and diagnosis!

Therapy is also not a panacea and is only crowned with success if the therapy model fits the existing findings of the individual patient and the patient is also willing to help improve his or her situation. Many people affected, as well as outsiders, like to believe that the underlying problem would be treated quickly, no psychotherapy, especially behavioral treatment takes time. Unfortunately, due to a one-time stay in the acute psychiatry, no one was released as cured!

Even when it comes to the question of drugs yes or no, you are no longer quite as quick nowadays, again taking into account the acute condition, yes, there are drugs used, but are not necessarily to be seen as permanent medication.

How much success or failure there is depends a) on the diagnosis of the individual and his / her willingness to work on and with himself and b) also depends on how openly problems are also addressed and last but not dingens, it is a question of cooperation and the Trust from the patient and the treating doctor and therapist ...


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Pseudoscience Psychiatry

09/01/2012 at 10:14 am
Banana_Joe wrote:But can psychiatry help these people?
No she can not. And I say that as a victim who has been in treatment for 5 years. All they can do is chat and fill you with medicine. You have no right to choose your own treatment. If you don't take what seems right to them, you won't get anything.


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Pseudoscience Psychiatry

09/01/2012 at 10:19 am
Banana_Joe wrote:A billion dollar business for the pharmaceutical industry, but no real help for those affected and often even harmful to their health.
Billion business, yes. No real help, no. When it comes to depression, drugs like lithium are very effective and alleviate the symptoms of those affected. That’s a fact. Neuroleptics also help with schizophrenia, etc. Also a fact.

Unfortunately, it is also a fact that psychiatrists have easy access to the pen when it comes to prescribing medication. Therefore, someone with mental health problems should not only see a psychiatrist, but also seek therapy.


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Pseudoscience Psychiatry

09/01/2012 at 10:40 am
@Banana_Joe
It helps some people, some not.


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Pseudoscience Psychiatry

09/01/2012 at 10:48 am
These anti-psychiatry threads are slowly but surely puking me, I hope that the representatives of the opinion never need any help, and if so, that they follow through with their opinions.


Does it speak negatively for someone addicted to relapse after their stay in the clinic? For you guys already? How so? Is psychiatry a miracle machine that can brainwash? Hardly, you tend to forget that you still carry a lion's share yourself. Do I want to get clean? Do I want to get out of the swamp of depression?

In my opinion, this drive of its own is the basis for building a house, if it is not given it will collapse at some point. Then of course it's easy to point to someone or an institution.

A person is not an object that can be put in a workshop, patched up, and then returned.

But yes, everyone has their opinion, I worked in psychiatry like shionoro, and I don't find anything reprehensible about it, and I've met many people who were grateful for it.


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Pseudoscience Psychiatry

09/01/2012 at 12:39 pm
It differs from person to person.
There are certainly people who psychiatry can help, for example when it comes to severe depression, schizophrenia or other, i.e. direct illnesses. But when it comes to referring someone who has problems that are not psychological, for example financial difficulties (although that can be related to that, but I'm assuming the opposite here) it will certainly not help. Certainly there are also a lot of people in the clinic who don't necessarily have to be there, I find it quite difficult to believe that with the 6-8 million Germans.
Many emotional and psychological problems cannot be resolved simply by therapy, with a probability bordering on certainty, especially not if one is stealthily and simply droned on with drugs that are supposed to help. I can even think of a case where a stay in the clinic only made the situation worse.
Conversely, it is also possible that it can help to cope better with life. As I said, it is different ...


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